Polling the Muck: "Who's The (Next) Boss" Edition Pt. 2
by mhb on Nov 17, 2009 6:00 AM EST
47 comments
Here's the follow-up question. Harbaugh has been added to the list because a lot of you folks voted for him in "Other" last time. Same as before, though: If you choose "Other", please explain in the comments.
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Defense First
Gary Patterson, if he wants to leave. He brings defensive credibility, can recruit Texas, and stepped up his offense over the past few years.
We went offense on the last 2 coaches, Willingham and the West Coast show and Weis with pro-style, so the administration goes defense.
by lradkowski on Nov 17, 2009 9:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You posted this same junk last year
Pure speculation.
I’ve got a source inside my ass that says 1) either you don’t have a source or 2) your source is lying to you.
by mhb on Nov 17, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I didn’t know that you place things or objects up your ass! Whatever you do on your own personal affairs should be kept to yourself and your gay lover!
by weisgipper on Nov 17, 2009 4:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
WOAH!!!
That was uncalled for.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 17, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People are
worried in Oklahoma. I live in OKC and Stoops had a press conference today and said the politicallly correct, “Notre Dame has a coach right now and I am the coach of the Sooners right now so their is nothing to talk about here”. It will be interesting to see what happens who knows what will happen after Bedlam of OU loses. Good luck getting him also, it would make the Big Xll a whole lot easier to win without Bob at OU. Texas would jump up with joy if you lured him away. I really hope you don’t go with Ferentz he hasn’t done all that much at Iowa I don’t see why everyone loves him so much. Gruden? Does ND dare try another NFL coach? Whom ever you get I hope you hit a home run with them because college football is better with Notre Dame competing for a title every year.
by Huzkerfan on Nov 17, 2009 7:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the Optimism
Ferentz will not be coming to ND. He is almost as unlikely as Harbaugh. Even the people that responded to these polls don’t like Ferentz. He has done nothing in arguably the worst BCS conference. He is incredibly inconsistent and does not recruit particularly well. No chance.
Gruden is hardly another NFL coach. There are far more differences between him and Weis than there are similarities. Gruden has actually been a head coach and even won a super bowl. He has played football before. He can run drills with the team. People have heard of him before coming to ND. There are more, but I think you get the point.
Thanks again for the optimism.
by djta on Nov 17, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am
a huge Bucs fan, cheered for them before the red and gray uniforms, and fully supported Jon Gruden wish he was still there. He got us a super bowl and were competitive pretty much every year. But do you think his style will translate well to the college game? He is an all or nothing type of guy. Don’t forget these are college players not paid to be there NFL guys. He is about polar opposite of Pete Carroll in the personality department also. He will bring in a very complicated offense and a huge playbook with him, similar to Bill Callahan at Nebraska. Past players there under Bill said they simply didn’t have time to learn it all. That being said Gruden is 10 times the coach Callahan is. I am just saying their offensive systems would be similar and their are only so many hours in a day for school, football, and other college life.
by Huzkerfan on Nov 18, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Big assumption
That is assuming that Gruden wouldn’t change. He actually knows these things that you stated. He is good friends with Bill. He has seen Charlie fail. As he has stated multiple times on MNF, he has been able to devote a good amount of his free time to studying offenses (college included) to see what works and what does not. He is a huge fan of the wildcat. I think he would be able to adjust his game accordingly. Also, Pete Carroll is a cock sucking douchebag. I am glad Gruden is nothing like him. That said, when Chuckie smiles at you it is hard not to smile back. I think he has a way about him that would get players to like him. Different than Petey, true, but effective nonetheless.
by djta on Nov 18, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ferentz won't come to ND
you still hold pep rallies and H.S. crap like that. He is a pro style guy. Plus, he has a better shot at this point at Iowa to get a NC. You don’t want Meyer…without Tebow and the Florida pipeline he is merely a nice coach. Half his players couldn’t get into DePaul. He’s essentially running a pro team down there. He’ll be just like Saban was at Michigan State…same results. These SEC guys are playing with guys who shouldn’t be near an academic institution.
Patterson is your guy but you won’t hire him because he has never been outside of Texas and his ego is too small. You like big ego guys…
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 17, 2009 10:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like Ty Willingham and Bob Davie?
http://www.rakesofmallow.com
by CW on Nov 17, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True...you really loved those guys and supported them well.
So I stand corrected. The Lou Holtz, Charlie Weis model is not really your thing.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 18, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are way off base
I don’t even understand what your point is. No one liked Ty or Davie from day one. How was Holtz a failure?
by djta on Nov 18, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously Holtz is a failure...
because he didn’t win a National Championship at William and Mary.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 18, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am suggesting that ND
likes attention it appears…perhaps even more than winning. You have been engaged in a 3 year drama fest, between your coach perpetually on the hot seat (will he, won’t he? See you next week!) and now even your QB who is the biggest drama queen ever.
Joe Montana is a million years ago.
There was a time when ND stood for hard work, head down, results driven football. Since Holtz…you have hated the quiet, respectful guys and put up with for far too long with the bafoonish loud mouth.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 18, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't even make sense
Weis was never on the hotseat before the 2nd half of last season.
Jimmy Clausen has a lot of personality problems, but I don’t know if drama queen is the right word there.
Ok.
How are Davie, Willingham, or Weis a baffonish loud mouth? How many people even heard of those guys before they came to ND? Maybe some Pac-10 guys and big time college football fans knew of Willingham. Davie’s career was made under Holtz at ND. Weis was a little known OC in the NFL before coming to ND. Willingham and Davie were not big talkers in private or in the media. Weis talks a lot, but I don’t understand the relevance.
Why do you keep saying dumb shit?
by djta on Nov 18, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have given up trying to figure out
the answer to that question. The simple answer is he is a troll here to stir up a fuss. Pretty pathetic, but that appears to be what he is about.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 18, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dude...are you unable to read
re-read the posts. You have taken aloomst everything I have said and mangled it. whatever. This site is filled with people who cannot stand a debate of anything. You guys are an echo chamber listing to yourselves over and over again. Enjoy.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 18, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks dumbass
I did reread the posts. Your points are refuted and then you try to turn them into something else. I love debating with you. It’s like pissing in an ice-filled urinal, you cannot lose. I would like to think I am consistent in my points of view and I am glad that you think that other ND fans are as well. Thanks.
by djta on Nov 18, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We enjoy a debate
just not one that is premised without any actual fact.
“…your QB is the biggest drama queen ever.”
What does that even mean? If you can’t defend your positions sensibly, no one will give a shit about them.
by mhb on Nov 18, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You define debate
as everyone agreeing with you. Most of us are too smart for that, even gatsby.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 19, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I see now
how Weis lasted so long.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 19, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Because lookingdeadred from RakesofMallow has a lot of say in that process. Good debating.
by djta on Nov 19, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you noticed the glee with which all the candidates above have expressed
thier interest with the ND job?
Gruden – asked what’s up with ND on MNF then signed multi-year deal with WWL
Ferentz – giggled at the thought of attending a pep rally (“Could you see me at a pep rally? I don’t think so.”)
Stoops – on notion of his interest in the ND job, “That’s ridiculous.”
Harbaugh – Signing new 3-year contract with Stanford this weekend.
Dungy – He saw what Tyrone went though. I’m betting he’ll pass.
Which leaves Brian Kelly…whose biggest win to date is a 31-21 win over Southern Miss. in the 2007 Papa Johns Bowl or a win over 21st ranked South Florida (the highest ranked team he’s ever beaten).
Debate that…
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 19, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
What do you expect these people to say? Weis hasn’t even been fired.
Gruden’s “multi-year deal” is for 2009-the winter of 2010, hardly compelling
Ferentz is not even a contender so good for him
Stoops has said he is interested, his public comments were a pretty clear nondenial denial
Harbaugh would never in infinity years be offered the job
Dungy WTF? What Ty went through? Because they are black? Ok?
So right now we seem to be looking at Gruden, Stoops, and possibly Meyer. Kelly is probably better than Weis, although a risk. There are also guys like Shanahan, Cower, and Saban.
I wouldn’t worry too much about what people say in public. If ND is doing their job right, then you won’t hear much of anything until the announcement is made in about 3 weeks.
by djta on Nov 19, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You keep making sense like this
stoops will never have a chance. Gotta wonder he feels the need to troll the boards of other teams. Pretty sad how empty his life has to be for this to get him off. Oh well.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 19, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One question,
why do you believe Harbaugh would never be offered the job?I agree he is along shot, but …
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 19, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For a number of reasons
1. He is a Michigan Grad
2. He has stated is distaste for ND in the past
3. He has stated his NFL aspirations and ND would be a stepping stone, not a destination
4. His coaching career is suspect, his overall record is below .500
5. We know what happened last time we hired an up-and-comer from Stanford…
by djta on Nov 19, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm,
1. Irrelevant
2. ND can offer millions of reasons to change that opinion
3. Fair point , better to hire someone for whom the ND job is the pinnacle
4. Fire your fact checker, Harbaugh’s coaching record is 45-24.
5. Harbaugh is not Ty Willingham, that much should be obvious.
All this said, I assume Harbaugh re-ups with the Farm as they will give millions of reasons to stay. Too bad, I believe he is exactly the kind of coach ND needs. He is a great recruiter, he clearly knows how to get the most out of his players, and he has an edge. He says (and does) stupid things sometimes, but he is a fierce competitor, and I think that is the kind of coach ND needs after the Weis years.
However, I have no idea what Harbaugh’s position is on the all important issue of pep rallies. If he is against, then all bets are off.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 20, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you say Harbaugh first or did I...
Perhaps we both came to this decision the same… What is this world coming to.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 20, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
1. How so?
2. You really wanted a coach who needs money to change his opinion of ND? That opinion alone should result in a suspension of your ND fan card.
4. I guess you need higher standards. I was referring to his career record at D-1 schools that actually offer scholarships. At Stanford he is 16-18, hardly aspirational. Good try though.
5. It is no obvious. Please expound…
It is not hard to recruit at ND. Recruiting prowess, in general, is a myth. It simply requires effort and Ws. The herd will follow.
He is a good coach. His Xs and Os are sound. That does not separate him from half of the NCAA coaches.
Edge…ooooo
Weis is not a fierce competitor, do explain?
by djta on Nov 20, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm part 2
1. What college Harbaugh went to is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is can he coach.
2. Are you really so naive to think that money is irrelevant?
4. So coaching wins and national titles won are irrelevant? Harbaugh is a proven motivator and winner., and a unlike Weis, an experienced head coach. Since he did not have scholarship athletes to work with at USD, he had to be a great coach of players to be a winner. How is that a bad thing?
5. If you cannot see that Harbaugh is very different from Willingham, you are either unwilling to back away from a stated position no matter how absurd or you’re really ignorant. So which is it?
It’s not hard to recruit at ND? It is much harder than at most elite football schools, something with which Harbaugh is familiar.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 21, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
none of these guys are going to Notre Dame—especially Meyer. Dungy was almost maniacal in his statement. Gruden was literally mocking Notre Dame on MNF. I mean, seriously, he has no respect. As for Cower and Shanahan…they aren’t doing pep rallies either. They will be coaching in the pros. Cower at Carolina and Shanahan has choices beyond Bills. Ferentz…not interested in pep rallies either. Harbaugh I read has signed the contract already and it will be announced after the Cal game…which, hello, is the game for them every year so you don’t take attention away from that.
Look, you might be able to get Kelly and he is a massive roll of the dice. A couple of hours ago he was at a DIII school and has never won a game against a Top 20 team. Lost all of them.
Sorry…you are who you are now. Live with it.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 19, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell is up with you and pep rallies?
You are not very good at this debate thing. I don’t see how you have refuted any of my points.
Why isn’t Meyer coming to ND?
Dungy was just a name thrown out there. Certainly has no interest in returning to coaching.
How did Gruden mock ND? I believe he spent quite a bit of time praising Quinn.
So because Cower and Shanahan can coach in the NFL they wouldn’t want to coach at ND? It is certainly a longshot, but definitely a possibility.
Yes, we all know you like Kirk Ferentz and wish that he would be desired at other schools. No one wants him to be the next head coach at ND. He is not good and he hates pep rallies. Good for him.
Seriously, nobody wants Harbaugh
Thanks for agreeing with me about Kelly, which again is probably ND’s worst case scenario, and that ain’t too bad. Kelly was at a D2 school. I am not a big supporter of his so you can challenge his credentials all you want. However, he would probably be an upgrade over Weis.
I am sorry too…:(
by djta on Nov 19, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do not feed the trolls
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 20, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My 2 guys would be...
Harbaugh and Kelly. And Im not sure that saying Kelly hasn’t beaten anybody is such a huge knock, he has been with Cincinnati for like 3 years, hardly enough time to build a powerhouse, especially out of a school who is hardly known for being one.
I also read that NFL coaches tend to peak in their first 10 years that the success they have late in their career never matches the success they have early in their career… I wonder if it is the same way in college, off the top of my head, I can’t think of any coach that won a National Championship early in his career, then won another one late in his career… My point being Im not sure that Stoops would be a great hire, and that getting a young promising coach is probably better than getting a proven guy, yes its a bigger gamble but like most gambles it has a bigger reward too.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 20, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting
I don’t know how relevant historical trends really are to coaches*, but it would be interesting to see some analysis of that theory. There are certainly guys who have coached for a long time and then won, but I agree I can’t think of a guy that won young and then won old. Not NCs, but maybe Paterno?
*In terms of history, football is pretty new. There are still a number of coaches that have been with their programs from the start, or coaches at a school that had no football team before they were there.
See my discussion of Harbaugh above. I think Kelly is a huge risk and is NDs worst case scenario. No way he doesn’t come if offered the job. I think Stoops, Gruden, and Meyer are all better options.
by djta on Nov 20, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All I am saying...
Is that Gruden Stoops and Meyer may be better coaches, and they may lead long tenured highly succesful careers at Notre Dame, but history states (relatively to how short a history that it may be) that they wont be as successful as they have already been. So if the goal is to win Championships I say roll the dice with someone who has yet to peak, but if its to get to BCS games then yes go with the guys you stated. But you and I agree, that the goal isn’t to just go to BCS games.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 21, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you looked at the numbers at all?
I agree that off the top of our heads it appears that your theory is correct, but do the facts support it? I have been trying to think of coaches that break that theory:
Bear Bryant: won first in ‘61 and last in ’79 (coached at Bama from ’58-’82)
Barry Switzer: won first in ‘74 and last in ’85 (coached at OK from ’73-’88)
I stopped looking, but maybe Osborne, too?
Other coaches that have won multiple championships have done so within the same 5-7 year period. Many coaches have had top 5 success for 10-15 years, but again not with multiple title or at multiple schools. So the theory seems to hold true.
Another interesting point is that no coach has won a D-1 national championships at different schools. I think Gruden is hard to include in these groups because he would, far and away, be the most successful NFL coach to come to NCAA. There is no precedence.
Finally, I don’t know how much this all means. Yes history supports a premise, but what do historical events really matter in this situation? I’m not too worried about it. I still rather the most successful, proven head coach possible.
by djta on Nov 21, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't looked actually...
and like I said it was in the NFL, and it only applied to Championships, not necessarily winning percentage.
Of course college football is a different animal, when you win you have a better chance of getting good players, so its almost a perpetual machine. There are also much more colleges than NFL teams so the sample size wont even be comparable. And without looking, and I must admit my knowledge of college coaches outside of Notre Dame is pretty limited, if those are the only ones thats a very small deviation.
And like I said before, if this trend of warm states winning 80% of the championships that is going to skew the numbers even more.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 21, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Goddamnit....
I hate you, but that made me laugh… Now I can’t tell the difference between up and down.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 20, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Start praying
that Meyer is tired of winning NC’s
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
by StoopsMyAss on Nov 21, 2009 7:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How much hiring power does ND have right now?
When the school hired Weis, it was after what appeared to be snubs by a few guys, particularly Urban Meyer. What’s the likelihood that they could pry away a big name like Stoops or even Harbaugh? I think Brian Kelly is the only guy who meets all three of the following criteria:
1. Being an accomplished head coach at the college level, having built up several fledgling program.
2. Currently employed in a position where going to ND would still be a step up in terms of prestige, money, or recruiting power.
3. Not quite at the level where he could write his own check anywhere in the country.
It doesn’t hurt that he’s Irish-Catholic, and he also has a fine reputation for getting players to perform well above their talent levels. That’s key, because although Weis would be leaving a stocked cabinet, the whole is inexplicably less than the sum of its parts.
I think Kelly makes the most sense of any current college head coach. I think Gruden makes the most sense of the rest of the field.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 24, 2009 5:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
More than most I would say
How many other schools have their own TV network?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 26, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Money's part of it, sure
But even there, are they going to be able to compensate a coach well enough to outweigh the risk of falling flat like everyone since Holtz has? It’s a pretty risky job, because it’s beginning to look like the ND formula (good academics, independent status, majestic campus) isn’t appealing to the text-message generation. While I find it unfortunate that kids are more swayed by LCDs in the training room and hundred-dollar handshakes than by useful degrees and a nationwide fanbase, it seems to be the case right now.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 1, 2009 8:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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