Polling the Muck: 11/11/09

Not really

Ty’s last years recruiting were awful, the results of which we saw on the field the last couple of seasons.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 11, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well put

by mhb on Nov 11, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 11, 2009 1:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

if Weis remains the coach and the Irish continue to be between a 7-4 team to a 9-2 team from here on out I guess things could be much worse, though I have a feeling we would get more 7-4 seasons than 9-2 seasons. This would still make us better than about 70% of college football.

At one point in time (obviously prematurely) I was convinced that Weis was not only goint to win a National Championship, but multiple National Championships. Now I am of the opinion that we may be lucky to get a BCS bowl game every 5 years. Ive pretty much come to accept that I will probably never see ND win a National Title again… Sigh.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 11, 2009 2:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wow you are lame

That is a horrible attitude. Why even waste time posting that?

by djta on Nov 11, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

how is it horrible attititude...

when its probably the truth. 10 of the last 12 or so National Champions have come from warm states.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 11, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Horrible Attitude

I hope you are joking about the warm state thing, but in case you are not…

“I guess things could be much worse”: that is a defeatist attitude justifying a mediocrity

“This would still make us better than 70% of college football”: if that is your standard in life, then I am sure you are a very happy man

“Ive pretty much come to accept that I will probably never see ND win a National Title again… Sigh”: that’s about as lame as it gets, granted I don’t know your age but I hope that is not true

by djta on Nov 11, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well its more like 8 of 10

the other 2 being Ohio State and Oklahoma.

I really hope that ND can become elite, I just dont ever think it will. Without looking and not knowing what the numbers are, an overwhelming number of elite high school athletes come from the south already. And think about it, if you were an elite high school athlete used to year round warm weather would you want to go to ND? Not only that but the last time ND went to a National Championship game Holtz was the head coach when Notre Dame had less strict admission standards.

Im not okay with being an above average school, but there is nothing I can do about it. I love Notre Dame, and I would nearly kill for a Championship, hell when I was 10 years old I had navy and green plaid wallpaper.

But you guys can call me whatever you want, you guys can accuse me of whatever. After all its much easier to debate the character than the actual content. You guys can continue to be delusional and expect big names to come here and wake up the echoes. But in the event that it doesn’t Im still gonna watch ND every Saturday,

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by averagegatsby on Nov 11, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the Correction

I know that you think that ND will never become “elite” again, and that is why I think you attitude is lame.

I agree about players from the south. I think an overwhelming majority of NFL players are from the southern midwest and southest US (like you, this is not looking at the numbers). However, I don’t think the weather has to do a lot with an athlete’s choice of college. As even Weis as said, a number of NFL teams play a majority of their games in cold climates (Buffalo, Greenbay, Chicago, New York, etc.), and if you want to play on Sunday you might as well get used to playing in that weather on Saturday.

Did ND really have less strict admission standards under Holtz? I honestly don’t know, but I don’t think they did.

My grammer school carpet was forest green and my walls were green and yellow, congrats on your wallpaper.

You guys? I don’t even know who you are talking about.

I will continue to call you lame if you are happy/satisfied with coming close to qualifying for BCS bowl games. That is weak. You will still watch on Saturdays? Congratulations. It is not delusional to think that ND is still one of the best college football programs in the country and that big named coaches would want to come here and succeed. If you can succeed at ND you can succeed anywhere, in football and in life.

Your defeatist attitude is disheartening. Let’s just kick some Pittsburgh ass on Saturday!

by djta on Nov 12, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The only thing I dont get...

is why is my attitude lame, when i have zero control over the outcome of the game.

And its not just about playing in the weather. I know when I was 17 I really only had a few things on my mind, and Im sure if I had the opportunity to watch USC cheerleaders it would make ND far less attractive.

And back to the Holtz admission standard. Tony Rice had to sit out his Freshman year because his SAT was lower than what the NCAA allowed a player to have. They may not have actually had lower admission standards but they did allow Tony Rice in. And then after Lou won a title and got ND back to the top ND started handing out less and less exemptions, the biggest being the scholarship they withdrew from Randy Moss.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 12, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it either...

I agree that the song girls are an attractive draw. Nevertheless, people that want to play in the NFL value things differently than me and you. They value growth in their skill set and the ability to showcase those skills on a national stage, something ND can certainly do. This recruiting argument is not a strong one.

Regardless of the ability of your individual attitude to alter the outcome of an individual game, when expressed over a collective fan base it becomes problematic. If all ND fans become complacent and accept 70% as success, then this program will never reach championship caliber, much less dominate. Your attitude is lame because you are giving up. You are lowering your standards and justifying them by comparing them to average. I want better than average. I think most ND fans feel the same way. I don’t know what your standards were 10 years ago, but I am guessing that they weren’t satisfied with an occasional BCS bowl game. The fact that that somehow suffices makes your attitude lame. You shouldn’t lower your standards because of some recent hardships. We should still root for excellence, strive for excellence, and expect excellence. Anything short of that should be considered a failure, and that is why we are having this whole discussion in the first place.

Again back to Holtz, you are correct. I forgot that they did allow exceptions to the normal admissions standards based on some type of federal mandate (I think). Rice was definitely a part of that program and I think that Zorich and maybe Watters were a part of it as well. In the early 90s they removed that perk and it was one of the many things that led to Holtz’s departure. Allowing those types of exceptions would not hurt this program one bit. It might offend some of the grad students, but I don’t give a rat’s ass. I rather win a championship than have the country’s best academic programs, but I must be in the minority.

by djta on Nov 12, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really doubt...

my feelings on Notre Dame really are going to sway the collective. And if I had actually given up on them I wouldn’t waste my time rooting for them. But I also would like to have a lot of things, most of which I will never get. 10 years ago it wasn’t as obvious to me the challenges that Notre Dame faces in being competitive.

But the National stage isn’t what it used to be, ever game is on TV and if a high school athlete really wants to compete then he would play go to a BCS conference where the competition is much much higher.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 12, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

keep it civil

by mhb on Nov 11, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

consider the source

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 11, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

refute any of the logic in that statement

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by averagegatsby on Nov 11, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would if there was any

but it is just more of your usual whining and bellyaching. Clearly being an ND fan is causing your more pain than pleasure, so why continue? It’s just a game. Get a life why don’t you.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 12, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am pretty sure ND football is more than a game. I know that it is a lot of people’s life (mine included). You can’t fault someone for being passionate. However, you can blame them for being lame and defeated. I think gatsby has given up.

by djta on Nov 12, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think you guys have a fair assessment of me...

I am as optimistic a fan (to a fault) with the Royals. And there is absolutely no reason to think that the Royals would win a World Series before the Irish could conceivable win a National Championship. But logic dictates that more than likely the Irish will never win a championship, but thats not going to stop me from rooting and hoping.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 12, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Logic?

How does logic dictate that more than likely the Irish will never win a championship? What is the logic behind that comment? This is the exact attitude I am talking about. Why are you expecting and accepting failure? There is no logic for that.

by djta on Nov 12, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The logic is...

that ND is geographically at a disadvantage. They have stricter admission standards so they are removing a large group of athletes from the pool. A lot of the advantages that ND once possessed aren’t there. I think this sucks and it is possible to overcome it, but its unlikely.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 12, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

on logic...

It may be more probable that ND will not win a national championship than win one, but it is certainly not impossible. Logically, if there is a chance that something could happen, then it is not probable that it will NEVER happen.

It is possible that ND won’t win another national championship, hell, it may even be more probable than not. However, it is not impossible.

It’s like Johnny Depp’s character said in Blow: “Sometimes you’re flush and sometimes you’re bust, and when you’re up, it’s never as good as it seems, and when you’re down, you never think you’ll be up again.” Notre Dame is down. We’re in a trough. But just because averagegatsby can’t see the next crest doesn’t mean that it isn’t ever going to come.

by mhb on Nov 12, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I find it ironic

that that you call me a bellyacher when I have never read a positive post from you. Everything you have ever posted is either negative about something Notre Dame has done, or belittling the opinion of another. I fail to see what makes you such a superior human being.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 12, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Never claimed to be a superior human being

just not a whiner and bellyacher who takes a game way too seriously. You post the stupidest stuff which I try to ignore most of the time (successfully) but once in a while I feel compelled to respond. Grow up why don’t you.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 12, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck off

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by averagegatsby on Nov 12, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Careful, what if your mother saw you posting that?

She might take your internet access away. Now get back to your math homework like a good little boy.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 13, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever...

go back to your self superiority and misplaced righteousness.

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by averagegatsby on Nov 13, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

true story

by djta on Nov 11, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Weiss isn't getting the job done in South Bend.

Improvement since Willingham’s last years, but 6-3 with another loss to Navy isn’t where ND should be and their are coaches out there that can do much better.

Time to pull the plug in my opinion.

Between The Hash Marks - Statistical Analysis Into Sports

by HashMarks on Nov 12, 2009 6:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks buddy

by djta on Nov 12, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Next Coach?

Turner Gill? Notre Dame has tried the big name coach and it has got you nothing. I think it is time to try someone that understands tradition and is going to embrace that tradition. He understands expectations and tradition from his time at Nebraska. Plus he would rebuild your program from the inside out which is what needs to happen for you guys to be a power every year. Sorry the quick fix of Wiess didn’t work, 30 million down the drain. Gill would have the ability to bring in a top notch staff since he doesn’t have the ego of a Meyer or Stoops, he’d be good to work for, and lets face it Notre Dame would be great place to get your start as an offensive or defensive coordinator. Plus, the guy has had success recruiting to Buffalo imagine what he could do at ND. If the Huskers defense wouldn’t have been in shambles Osborne probably chooses him of Pelini. I know he isn’t the sexiest pick out there but he might be the right one.

by Huzkerfan on Nov 13, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like the Huskers...so thanks for stopping by

I like Turner Gil. Just not for ND. Understanding the tradition is not a factor. Weis understands the tradition.

What does rebuild from the inside out mean? The football coach has very little to say about the inner workings of the football program, so that doesn’t really mean a lot to me.

How was Weis a quick fix? And how was he a big name coach? I think he was relatively unknown before the process leading up to his hire.

Meyer and Stoops do not have top-notch staffs, but Gill does? I am pretty sure Meyer’s staff has and will have a much more success.

Recruiting is not hard and will not be a problem.

Thanks for your opinion but it is not a good one. Gill has little big-time coaching experience and certainly needs some more work before making the jump to ND. Not the worst choice in the world, but there are much better options.

by djta on Nov 13, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The players

at Notre Dame, to an outsiders point of view, don’t look like they are buying into Charlie’s system. That or the system simply isn’t working. Gill would bring in a good system is all I was trying to say. Wies has had great recruiting classes and lets face it Notre Dame isn’t that good. Fourth quarter comebacks against average to below average teams isn’t what ND should be doing. They should be dominating those games especially with those recruits. Weis was one of the hottest assistant in the NFL when the Irish hired him, and it looked good at the time, I was on board. As for the staff I just was trying to point out I believe Gill could get a quality one assmebled at South Bend is all. Lets face it who wouldn’t want coach at ND. Gill is a even tempered and I don’t think the pressure would get to him. Wies at times looks like it does get to him although I am sure the light gets pretty bright. Will it work I don’t know, but Spurrier at South Carolina hasn’t exactly been a huge success. I just think Gill would do a quality job and have Notre Dame winning BCS games in no time. I am sure Meyer and Stoops would do a great job also, but I don’t think you will get them away for OU or the Gators. Pains me to sayi it, but ND isn’t the job it used to be.

by Huzkerfan on Nov 13, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Neither is the Nebraska job

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 14, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I never said it was

by Huzkerfan on Nov 16, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Huh???

Weis a quick fix? How do you figure that? As for tradition, Weis went to ND, so I think you can say he understands the tradition better than an outsider like Gill.

Finbally, how exactly does this make any sense: “Gill would have the ability to bring in a top notch staff since he doesn’t have the ego of a Meyer or Stoops”. Do you actually think Meyers or Stoops have had any trouble bringing in top notch assistants?

Turner Gill might become a fine coach but your reasoning in your post above is bizarre to say the least.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 14, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just

was trying to say I think he would do you a great job is all. After this weekend Notre Dame will have a new coach next year. Do I think Gill will get it, 99.9 percent chance that he won’t even get an interview. Quick fix was probably a bad choice of words to describe Charlies hiring and mega extention. He was thee hot NFL assistant when hired and flavor of the week after his first season and Notre Dame bit big time to keep him from bolting back to the NFL. But it ended up 30 million down the drain. I drank the koolaid also, it looked good at the time. No matter what happened in the past where do you go from here. I actually live in Oklahoma and Stoops and his staff are under a lot of scrutiny here right now. You almost get the feeling he is getting fed up with it after the Nebraska game, he just might bolt if the situation was right. Good recruits, better money, and it would put him closer to Ohio where he is from. At first I didn’t think he could be lured away but I am not so sure now.

by Huzkerfan on Nov 16, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh ya

I pretty sure he is Catholic too.

by Huzkerfan on Nov 16, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who cares?

Rockne and Parseghian weren’t and they are revered ND coaches.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 19, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In a holding power.

But that’s not good enough.

"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel

by jdh90 on Nov 14, 2009 6:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

holding pattern*

"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel

by jdh90 on Nov 14, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs